A conversation series between Lindsay Boccardo and Lauren Moffatt, HR expert.

Lauren: So Linds, I have this question for you. One of the questions I got this week was from a boomer and he was wanting to know how can he be more relevant in the workplace.

Lindsay: Oh, yeah. I think boomers are feeling that more than ever. They're feeling just as threatened around their work, around their viability. Like am I aging out? We're talking a lot more about ageism in the workplace. The tension is palpable.

Lauren: Very much so. He was definitely frustrated.

Lindsay: Well let's talk about one area. Technology I think is a big one where boomers don't feel relevant, or they're wondering how they're going to keep up. I think that we're in this new era where if you know how to use technology, you can get more done faster. Just because technology exponentially speeds up your work. I feel for boomers who are trying to catch up with how much technology is changing. I'll tell you millennials, those of us who are like, "Sure Barb, I'll help you attach your document ha ha ha." Guess what? Gen Z is going to come up and instead of taking like typing classes, they're taking coding classes. So they're building whole universes online and some of us millennials know how
to code, but not all of us. That's going to be natural for your kids. They're gonna be like, "Yeah, I can code this real fast" -- boop boop beep beep boop boop. Then millennials are going to feel the same way that boomers do now. 

If you grow up with technology, your brain wires different and you think about things differently. There is going to be a variance in terms of comfort around technology. To the degree that you're willing to adapt yourself, especially as a boomer, to be willing to learn what it takes technologically, will help you stay relevant.

I just had somebody today tell me, "I just have a millennial come and fix it every time." And I thought, well, that's kind of lowering your perceived respect, because you're just letting somebody else do it for you. There's this level of, "It'd be awesome
for you to take some time to actually learn that."

Lauren: I love that because then you're not saying you need to be relevant in all different areas, but for the work that you do, what is the fastest way to do that?

Lindsay: Exactly. I think that millennials are chiefly thinking about efficiency, even more than quality sometimes. I totally feel for boomers, cause there was a time where if you were the most experienced, you are automatically top dog. And that's just not true anymore. Now it's the most educated in certain areas or it's just a totally different world. I can imagine watching all that flip on your head. The introduction of technology  would be concerning in my career if I was a boomer. 

Lauren: Yeah! You've waited for your time. You've waited your moment, and then this whole group comes in and now the rules of the game are changing.

Lindsay: I think everybody can do kind of a check within themselves in terms of, "Am I resisting change or am I accepting it?" The world is changing, choose to grow with it. That'll make a huge difference.


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Connect with Lindsay
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsayboccardo/
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/LndsyBoccardo
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A conversation series between Lindsay Boccardo and Lauren Moffatt, HR expert.

Lauren: So Linds.

Lindsay: Yeah?

Lauren: You coach millennials like a boss...

Lindsay: "Like a boss." [laughs] Yeah, sure.

Lauren: What's interesting is I get this question all the time, and I'm curious what you would say. For a boss who's not a millennial, what do you think is the most important thing that they could know about the millennial generation and how to work with them, coach, and manage them?

Lindsay: I think the biggest one -- that companies tend to score low on too when I go in to work with them -- is this piece around personal growth. So your employee really wants to grow. And sometimes that comes out in a way that's not really palatable, like, "I want to be the VP here." But I know that millennials really want to grow, especially if they came from college. They're running at a pretty fast clip -- every semester I have new teachers, I live in a new area, I might move from a dorm to a fraternity house or sorority house, I'm always changing! They're at this three to four month clip where they're used to seeing change. So when they come to you, and they've been with you for eight months, and they're like, "Oh, I just, I feel so bored. I wonder if I'm ever going to grow here." It's because they're used to a totally different pace of life.

Lauren: That's so good.

Lindsay: Yeah, so making sure that you have a plan in place where they're co-creating and they know that you're considering their personal growth and that they're also self-advocating and taking steps for themselves that you're encouraging. That is huge. 

Personal growth is the top reason why people hire me [as a career coach], because they're not getting it at work, which makes them think, "I'm going to leave this job and I want to grow." When I go in to companies, I have them score four different factors, and one of them is in your culture. How much is personal growth supported and encouraged? How well are you doing that? That's often where they score the lowest. So it's interesting that there's this overlap between what millennials tell me they want most when they come to me, and then companies score the lowest in that exact spot. It's always around personal professional development.

Lauren: Yeah. Cause they're going outside [the company] obviously to get that need.

Lindsay: Yeah, exactly. They might want to leave because of that.

Lauren: That's a good reframe because I think a lot of managers that I work with, so gen X or boomers, they can label that sometimes as entitlement. Knowing that this eagerness is a result of this fast clip, just knowing where they came from. That makes perfect sense. Great advice.


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Connect with Lindsay
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsayboccardo/
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A conversation series between Lindsay Boccardo and Lauren Moffatt, HR expert.

Lindsay: I want to grow in my organization. I want to ultimately be a leader here. How do I bring that up to my manager without sounding like cocky or just making it weird? How do I say it?

Lauren: Just know out of the gate that anytime you have a conversation with your manager that you want to be more, that you want to add more value, you want to have more responsibility or more scope, that's always a great conversation to have. 

Lindsay: So really positioning it as, "Hey, I really want to add value to what we're doing here. What could I take that on?" How would you say that?

Lauren: I would say, "I'd love to have a conversation with you about how I could add more value. I've been thinking about my role and I've noticed X." Having some type of thought about where you could add value is important, versus just heading to your manager and
then expecting them to hand all of it to you. Just by having the idea and giving them the impression that you've thought about it is a huge benefit to you, even if it's not the direction they ultimately want to go. Whether or not it opens an opportunity, they know you're thinking that way.

Lindsay: Totally. This is such a good tip. If you're wanting to grow, ask how you can add value. Make it about the organization's priorities. Don't say, "I want to grow. I'm getting bored and I don't know what to do with myself." 

Lauren: Exactly.


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Connect with Lindsay
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsayboccardo/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lindsayboccardo
Twitter: https://twitter.com/LndsyBoccardo
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lindsayboccardolifecoach

A conversation series between Lindsay Boccardo and Lauren Moffatt, HR expert.

Lindsay: Okay I want to play a little game with you. It's called putting you on the spot.

Lauren: I'm sweating now.

Lindsay: [laughs] Okay, so I'm going to pretend I'm your client. You're a career coach in real life, you help people all the time develop their careers, get to where they want
to go. Set awesome, reasonable goals and then nail them. That's what you're known for. So I'm coming to you. I need some career advice. Okay? 

Thanks for meeting with me. Here's the thing. I am so overwhelmed. I have got 700 emails in my inbox; I don't even know which ones matter at this point. I have meetings that are double backed on each other that I'm not making. I feel like I'm letting everybody down
and then I'm not even getting done the basic stuff I'm supposed to get done. I feel like I'm going to lose my job. Where do I start?

Lauren: Tell me what feels the most draining to you.

Lindsay: Well, my desk is covered in papers, then I open my email. 776 emails.

Lauren: So there's chaos not only in your physical work environment but then also on your computer.

Lindsay: Yes! Where do I start?

Lauren: If you could change one thing right now that would give you energy, what would it be?

Lindsay: I would light my desk on fire. [laughs] No, that's good. Probably...probably getting out of the office actually getting away from the chaos and just getting my email to a manageable place.

Lauren: So your email is the most stressful. If you could go to a coffee shop or be outside and crank that out and get that done, you would feel some space?

Lindsay: Yeah. You know how in 776 emails, there's probably like 40 that are real? I suspect only have like 35 emails...I just need to get it done.

Lauren: How long do you think that would take you?

Lindsay: Just to get it separated out? Probably an hour. And then if I really do have like 35 emails, that'll probably take a couple of hours. So half a work day.

Lauren: So when you think about your week, when would you like to do that?

Lindsay: I have time this afternoon. I mean it's Friday afternoon and half the people are gone. Probably just get it done.

Lauren: So it's a great time to do it. Where would you like to go to do it?

Lindsay: Uh, we have a coffee place in our building that I could go work in.

Lauren: Awesome. And whenever we have to do something that's draining, sometimes it's just helpful to do something that's also energizing. Maybe a coffee, or going to a
place that you'd like to go to...

Lindsay: Or sitting with one of my dogs? I have 400 dogs. Okay, that's great. I'll take my dog for a walk, then go to a coffee shop.

Lauren: That sounds great. And then one last question. How would you celebrate getting that done? What's something you're looking forward to doing? Can't be drinking. [laughs]

Lindsay: Well...I guess I'm getting a piñata then. Um, or bowling.

Lauren: "Bowling" [laughs].

Lindsay: I'm gonna take myself bowling! [laughs] I could see like getting a little chocolate truffle.

Lauren: A little decadent dessert. Yeah, that sounds great. Then you got your afternoon.

Lindsay: Okay. I can do this afternoon. I can do it. Great. Awesome. So this is really a scenario that in real life, you and I probably talk to somebody about it once a week. Overwhelm totally puts you in a fog. Your brain is scrambled. You can't think straight, you don't know what to do first. That's totally normal in learning how to manage new technology, the different communications that are coming in, and your different priorities. If you're feeling overwhelmed today, just do the first thing that will make the biggest difference. It's different for everybody. It could be cleaning off your desk. It could be just going for a walk. Organizing emails is a big one depending on how important communication is in your organization. So, awesome.

Lauren: Exactly. Go get some chocolate too.

Lindsay: Yeah. Definitely get yourself a decadent....what did we call it?

Lauren: Chocolate truffle.

Lindsay: A chocolate truffle.


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Connect with Lindsay
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsayboccardo/
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/LndsyBoccardo
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Lindsay: I get a new job. I'm super excited. It's my dream company. And I have to go on the first day and I'm the new kid on the block. What's the most important thing somebody could do to prepare for their first day at a new job?

Lauren: Relationships are huge. So meet your boss and who's on your team. So I think that's one thing that gets overlooked, thinking that'll come later. But that's one of the first things that I help my clients work on is creating a list of the five to seven people who are the most relevant people for them to know. A stakeholder list.

Lindsay: So you're talking about going in and targeting who would make sense to get close to. Here's a piece that I think is interesting. I find that millennials, and young people in general, want to impress somebody by being funny or showing how much we know, and that is not what people want.Please go read Dale Carnegie "How To Win Friends and Influence People." It's a book written in the thirties but the whole crux of that book is be more interested in the other person. So on that first day, learning about the people on your
team and saying, "That's cool that you enjoy that, that's awesome." You know, making sure that you're making it about the other people and not about you. That makes such a huge
difference with the first impression.

Think about somebody who introduced themselves puffed themselves up. I literally have somebody in my mind right now. They're like, "Hey, I'm pretty amazing. You're lucky
to have me."  

Lauren: It's a normal tendency. You feel insecure. You're like, "Oh my gosh, I am worth something. I am worth something. I'm worth something!" Because you're learning and you're not showcasing your value yet. So people get anxious and they're like, "I am awesome. No, I am awesome." I love that you flipped it and it really is about still being curious and caring about the other person.

Lindsay: Knowing your own value is going to show. If you're on a sales team. Your
numbers will show. Whatever you're doing, it will come through. Your hard work will come through.

Lauren: Yes. And asking good questions is a great way to show your value even though you're not producing something. The questions that you ask show someone how you think. So valuable.

Lindsay: So what's like one question that somebody can ask their boss the first day?

Lauren: I think one is, "When I am coming into this job and I'm looking at my first week, what do you think would be the most valuable thing that I focus on?"

Lindsay: Yeah cause you're learning their priorities! You might think, "Oh, I know what I should do. I should learn Excel, that's part of my job." But if you asked, they might have told you, "We're not worried about Excel! We're worried about you getting to know the
team", or, "We're worried about you understanding how our communication system works." So that's a great insight. I think we try to predict what other people want from us when you could just be like, "Hey, what do you want from me?" 

Lauren: So good. Then you're aligned and you're on the same page. The manager will think, "Oh, this person cares about the way we do things here.

Lindsay: That's awesome. Okay. So if it happens to be your first day today, you're going to do great! 

Lauren: Ask lots of questions. 

Lindsay: Be a leader, make good decisions. Make your own little sandwich for your lunchbox.

Lauren: And don't forget to smile! Smiling is big.

Lindsay: You know, be friendly even when you're scared. I teach this in public speaking -- when you're stressed, your face tends to get tight and your eyes go kind of dead. And then you look really uninterested in everything, but it's really just because you're feeling anxious. I do that sometimes. Smile!

Lauren: Have a great first day.

Lindsay: Go get 'em tiger.

A conversation series between Lindsay Boccardo and Lauren Moffatt, HR expert.

Lindsay: I feel so lucky that we get to work together in companies that we love that want to treat their employees with a ton of respect. We like to use the word "humanely". Companies that understand human nature and want to take care of their employees. Those are the companies we love to work for. And we also work with clients too who are trying to figure out their next career steps. Sometimes before they should quit, I see that what they really need is a little more time where they're at to grow and to learn how to communicate and self advocate for themselves.

Lauren: Yeah, that's true.

Lindsay: But then sometimes we also see that people really do need to leave. So what's a sign that somebody really does need to leave their job? And you're working with C-suite, people that are seasoned in their career.

Lauren: Right. So for with my clients that are actually evaluating this, I think of it in terms of energy. If they are feeling drained more than they're feeling energized. And there are seasons in our job or jobs like accounting, they're going to feel a little
bit more drained during January through April. But I'm talking about if it's ongoing beyond that and you're constantly feeling drained. You have the mopey Mondays...and the mopey Tuesdays and Wednesdays and Thursdays... then it's really time to think about whether the job is going to work for you or not. If you walk in every day and your energy is dipping. This is not good. A lot of the time, people stick that out. It's like a badge of honor sometimes.

Lindsay: "I'm staying, even though I'm suffering, and nobody's asking me to stay!!"

Lauren: Yeah! Because the unknown is much scarier than staying in. It's amazing to me though, once those individuals get that new job, they're like, "Oh my gosh, I wish I
would have done this six months ago."

Lindsay: Yeah. What's another sign that somebody should probably leave?

Lauren: If they have a toxic boss.

Lindsay: How often do you hear about a "bad boss", and you're actually like, "Uh oh, you're in trouble. This really is bad."

Lauren: I would say about half the time. If that boss feels threatened, if that boss is a micromanager, if that boss doesn't have a development plan for the employee as an individual, if you barely see your boss and when you do it's a negative experience...

Lindsay: If they're not interested in you growing. I had a boss once say, "I am actually not interested in you growing. I want you to do exactly what you're doing right now cause I want to go to grad school." And I quit on the spot. It's so important to me. And if it's not important to you that I grow, I'm out.

Lauren: One of my clients right now, she is in an experience where she had a former boss that was toxic. She got a new boss that totally changed the trajectory of her career. That boss is now leaving. She's got to go back to the old boss, and she's like, "I got to go." So you gotta go!

Lindsay: You gotta go. So the last sign is if there's no more head room for you to grow. That doesn't happen a lot for people that I coach because they're in their first decade, so there's probably still room for them to move up in their org or have more leadership. But you've definitely seen situations where there's just no more room for your client to grow. If they want an elevated position, they have to go somewhere else.

Lauren: That is the way right now, if you want to go after a promotion and there isn't something available then going outside of your workplace is the way. I think that happens
a lot more frequently now. It's probably every two to three years unless there's a lot of visibility for where you can go next, or your manager works with you on that.

So I would say that if you're not feeling like you're being grown and developed, and it can be with skills, it doesn't have to necessarily always be up. It can also be expanding. You have exposure to sales and maybe you're in marketing or a leadership class or whatnot. So I think the future of growing at work is not just based upon hierarchy.

Lindsay: It isn't, it's about going wide, having more experiences, which is cool.

Lauren: So if that's not happening, it's really time to go...cause you're wasting your time at that spot.


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Connect with Lindsay
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsayboccardo/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lindsayboccardo
Twitter: https://twitter.com/LndsyBoccardo
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lindsayboccardolifecoach

A conversation series between Lindsay Boccardo and Lauren Moffatt, HR expert.

Lindsay: You and I met, Lauren, because we're in the same field of career development. And I was impressed when we first met couple of years ago because you had been a VP of HR for a decade. You help executive level clients get the next job that they want in the C suite. You're working with people that have an awesome track record, that have a longer career. And I tend to work with people who are new to the marketplace, who just graduated college or they're in like their second job and they hate it and they're trying to figure out what they want. They have a ton of potential but don't have the track record yet.

But the thing that you and I both see is when a manager is awesome, and we can see that through the client. Just based on the client's point of view and experiences, we can tell if a manager is pretty doing a great job, but we also see managers who are toxic. I'm curious, what are some signs of an awesome manager?

Lauren: Well first, it's an obvious one, but at the same time it's still rare. It's really this investment of growing and developing each employee as a person.

Lindsay: So a manager who's like, "Hey, I know I don't own you. I'm here to help you grow.
I want to see you develop. Ultimately that's good for us and it's best for you."

Lauren: Right. The opposite would be, "I'm just going to do this because I want you to perform well for me." The subtle difference is a manager who cares about employees because of humanity over results. It's a human thing. I care about your wellbeing. Take that with you wherever you go.

Lindsay: I see that too with forward thinking people who own companies. They're like, "I know you're not going to stay forever. I'm not going to make a big deal out of that, but I want to help you while you're here because you become an ambassador if you leave." Okay, what's another sign of an awesome manager?

Lauren: They listen to you. Another one that's really simple, but it says a lot if your manager's willing to listen to how you feel or what you think or asking you
questions. That's just a sign of someone that's also coaching. So if they're listening more than talking, they're likely much more engaged.

Lindsay: Yeah, that's good. So the third one is when you have a manager that actually co-creates with their employees. There's not an org chart where it's like, "Give me your ideas and I will take credit for them and take them to the boss!", but to be somebody who gets in the middle of their team and helps come up with solutions as a team -- co-create as a team. They give credit to other people easily and generously.

Lauren: Yeah, it means that the manager believes that the team can create something better if it's outside of just themselves. They want you to feel that traction. They want you to know you did a great job. They step aside and give credit because it's about uplifting the people that support the team. That's a good sign of a manager, when they're willing to say, "No, this is all you. Enjoy it."


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Connect with Lindsay
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsayboccardo/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lindsayboccardo
Twitter: https://twitter.com/LndsyBoccardo
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lindsayboccardolifecoach

A conversation series between Lindsay Boccardo and Lauren Moffatt, HR expert.

Lindsay: Let's talk about three mistakes that people make when they're looking for their next job. The first one, that I see all the time, is people go onto career sites like Indeed or monster.com and they're just browsing for what jobs are out there. It's almost like when you go to the mall and you don't know what you're shopping for and you're broke. So you're like, this is really not satisfying. I don't even know what I'm looking for. And then you walk out, you're like, well, there's three hours of my life.

Lauren: Imagine stepping into Macy's and knowing nothing. I mean, you can buy a couch, you can buy a table.

Lindsay: [laughs] Do you want a suitcase while you're here? It's just a lot to process. So we believe that it's not helpful to look for career opportunities until you know what you're looking for.

Lauren: 100%. You're wasting your time.

Lindsay: Second mistake that people make when they're looking for a new job?

Lauren: It's not preparing for the interview.

Lindsay: They're like, "Ah, I got the interview. I'll just follow my heart at this point."

Lauren: That's like your biggest financial investment of your life! It has such a cascade
effect for your lifetime. So if you were to prepare, then you are at a better leverage point to potentially ask for more [money] or to get the job, which then affects the rest of your life.

Lindsay: We also see people come into the interview thinking, "You have my resume, what questions can I answer for you?" And they're expecting the person who is interviewing them to do the heavy lifting when the interview is actually a chance for our candidate, our client, to sit in front of somebody and be very clear about the value they would bring to this organization. So it's the opposite.

Lauren: 100%. I coach my clients all the time, the ownership is on the interviewee -- the person who's going to the interview -- to be able to highlight how they're going to add value to the business. That's their responsibility. It's not like, "Here's my resume and ask me all the questions." It just doesn't flow like that. So you can see that that's a different language than framing your skills purely as a value to the company, that's how you want to communicate your strong points to the interviewer.

Lindsay: Yeah. So when somebody is talking about themselves to an interviewer, you're not really there to say, "I'm amazing. Look at what I've done. You are lucky to have me if
you choose me." It's more, "Here's how I could add value to your company based on my experience and my skills." You're actually selling them on how you would integrate and make their organization better. Not just, "Here's my accomplishments. You're welcome."

Lauren: Right. Which means you look at their website, you understand their strategy, you understand the role, you understand the hiring managers. You have to understand all those pieces so that you know how to communicate your value in relation to what matters to them.

Lindsay: Yeah. That's good. The third mistake is waiting too long to network. So you're ready to apply. "I've got my new resume, I'm prepped. Now... I should probably
go ahead and meet some people." We talk about networking as just a part of your career, period. Always.

Lauren: Always. When a client comes to me, the first question I ask is what's your
relational wealth? That's what I call their active network. Everyone answers, "Not that great." So starting off, one of the first assignments is that they should be meeting five people a week. Yep, five people just because we're at a fast clip of trying to get their relational wealth up so that they can know people who know them. They're more likely to get into doors cause we know that you get jobs more likely by a second degree connection.

Lindsay: Yep. Absolutely. So even if you aren't even looking for a job, now you know that networking is something you should be doing regularly. And if you're not looking for a new job, how often would you suggest somebody just continue to slowly build their network?

Lauren: I would say that it should be at least one reach out a week or one networking event that they're going to. So depending upon what your vibe is -- I know that for an introvert it might be easier to do a one-on-one thing. Totally cool! If you're an extrovert, or even if you're an introvert and you would like to have 30 people that you can choose from, then go to an event like that.

Lindsay: And where would you start looking if you're not sure what you want to do next?What kind of events should you be going to?

Lauren: I think that you have a lot of options. So I'm thinking about, what type of position am I in now? You can start in that type of group because even if you're going to a sales conference or a sales meet up, there are people still considering other
opportunities or they might know someone. So you can always start in your current profession. Or if you have like a curiosity about marketing and you're in sales, then try out a marketing event.

Lindsay: So follow your curiosity really. That's great. Okay, so three biggest mistakes:

1. Shoppin' around on the internet and wasting your time and energy. 

2. Not preparing for interviews and not understanding that you are in the position to prove your own worth, not the other way around. And number 3...

Lauren: Relational wealth. Keep that network up.

Lindsay: Right, the mistake being not building it at all by not networking until it's kind of late in the game. Awesome. That was great. Thank you.

Lauren: Yeah! Thank you.


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​
Connect with Lindsay
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsayboccardo/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lindsayboccardo
Twitter: https://twitter.com/LndsyBoccardo
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lindsayboccardolifecoach

A conversation series between Lindsay Boccardo and Lauren Moffatt, HR expert.

Lauren: Hey you.

Lindsay: Hey Lauren. So good to see you. So we originally met because you're a career coach and I'm a career coach and you also have this extensive background as a vice president of HR. You've hired and fired a lot of people.

Lauren: Yes, unfortunately.

Lindsay: You've dealt with a lot of different types of issues. So what do you do when a client or an individual comes to you and they're talking about how frustrated they are and they tend to vent. What would you say about venting in the workplace?

Lauren: Well, it doesn't bode well for you at all. And I love to use the word "bode". I feel like you should have your pinky up with that one. [laughs] So whenever you vent in the workplace, it looks like you're actually a problem creator versus a problem solver. 

Lindsay: You're a part of the issue to begin with.

Lauren: You do kind of have a target on your back if you're venting. So many times when people vent, the whole intention is they're not trying to solve anything. They're just trying to get someone to validate how they feel.

Lindsay: And that's real, wanting to be validated! But doing that inside of your company just doesn't position you well.

Lauren: It doesn't, and you probably do it more than once. So then you probably have a label -- you're a Venter. It's draining to other people that work with you. You don't always know if they want to be a part of that or not. So then they're wondering,
"Does this person vent about me?" It just creates a question mark in people's heads.

Lindsay: About your character, yep. So where should someone go when they're frustrated?

Lauren: So they can go to a parent, they can go to a friend. They can go to maybe an outside professional group that they're in. Just some place where they know that that person is going to be trustworthy and that they can truly have that space to just complain without judgment.

Lindsay: That's great. And then if they're like, "Okay, I feel validated, I've got my hands around the problem now I actually do want to have a solution for this problem", then it makes sense to bring it back to work and say, "Hey, here's what I'm thinking. This
is an issue that I'm seeing here, so I want to solve it." And it's no longer venting cause it's constructive.

Lauren: Right. When you're so upset, you've got a ton of emotions. If you don't let that out, it's really hard for you to be in a place to work through the actual problem. So let it out with people that you trust and then you're more ready to actually receive and think about what could be a solution. That's being the person that you want them to see at work.

Lindsay: Yes, exactly. So venting at work is never really a good idea.

Lauren: Not so much, stick to those outside channels so you can come back to work with a clear mind and a solution. 


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Connect with Lindsay
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsayboccardo/
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A conversation series between Lindsay Boccardo and Lauren Moffatt, HR expert.

Lindsay: This happens to us all the time. Somebody comes to us and they're trying to figure out if they should change jobs. What kind of questions do you ask them to consider before they put their two weeks notice or start to torch bridges? What's like the first thing on the top of your mind when somebody says, "I think I want to leave".

Lauren: I would ask, what are you looking for that you don't have now? A lot of times it's so much about miscommunication; something small has happened that is gaining some serious traction because we all don't like conflict. So a small miscommunication has become this big thing, and they can't even see reality at that point. So I'm getting through to what's emotional in making the decision and what's really practical. I'm weeding that out for that person. What would you do if someone told you they want to leave?

Lindsay: I do think that we're most unhappy when we're more in conflict and there's somebody that makes us tense in the office. And it's so much easier to just be like, "Bye, I'm out." But then you just trade one stress for another because then you gotta find another job. You've got to find income. All of that is just as stressful as actually just going and talking to the person causing conflict. 

Then, I see this question all the time when I'm helping people process a conflict resolution or what we really call a clarifying conversation. "How can I do that with someone and not cry or get so emotional that I'm not able to manage myself?" I think a lot of that is: let's process through your emotion. This is why you feel this way.

Now, after the conversation, what do you want to see change? How realistic is it to even ask for that?

Lauren: Oh yeah. So that's the other part of it too. Sometimes outside of miscommunication,
it's also self-advocacy. Having the hard conversation with your manager and saying, "This is what I want. Is this something that we could talk through or what could this plan look like?" It's really these crucial conversations we don't have or we avoid.

Lindsay: And we see this make the difference in people's career path. People that are like, "I'm going to stay put and have the hard conversations instead of leaving." I see oftentimes that they either get what they want, or they get clarity that they really can't stay and it's much cleaner than leaving it with anger.

Lauren: It's like therapy for a relationship. Try therapy first before you ditch the whole thing.

Lindsay: Don't just dump all your coworkers like you're in a relationship with eight people. I dump you, I dump you, I dump you! [laughs] But taking time to really get to the bottom of what's going on and seeing if it's possible to change it. And then, don't you think that if somebody is willing to have those conversations and we come to the conclusion that they can't get what they want, it's going to be easier to send them off and be a future recommendation. Instead of just torching it. Or leaving.

Here's the thing that I see all the time. People leave, they don't give a two weeks notice. Maybe there isn't even an exit interview, so they don't say why they left. So even if you're leaving because you weren't treated well, people can't change what they don't know about. For the sake of everybody else that stays, speak up if you are going to go! You have the opportunity to preserve a relationship and have them in your future, too. Because when you go to the next job, everybody's going to ask for recommendations, right? Where have you worked before? If I can't talk to any of your former employers, that's a red flag.

Lauren: Yeah. One of the things I always ask is, how do you want to "leave well"? When someone gets really clear about how I want to leave: I want to give a four week notice. I want to have this conversation. Those things haunt people when they don't do them and then they go to the next job. So that really is such a good thing for the company, for everyone that stays, and for yourself.


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Connect with Lindsay
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsayboccardo/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lindsayboccardo
Twitter: https://twitter.com/LndsyBoccardo
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